Some Thoughts on “Acting White”
-->by Latoya Peterson
Over at Slate, Richard Thompson Ford promises to teach the readership “How To Understand “Acting White,” which immediately prompted an eyeroll from me. The article opens:
Some black students in the 1990s had a derisive name for their peers who spent a lot of time studying in the library: incog-negro. The larger phenomenon is all too well-known. Many blacks—especially black young men—have come to the ruinous conclusion that academic excellence is somehow inconsistent with their racial identities, and they ridicule peers for “acting white” if they hit the books instead of the streets after school. The usual explanations for this self-destructive attitude focus on the influence of dysfunctional cultural norms in poor minority neighborhoods: macho and “cool” posturing and gangster rap. The usual prescriptions emphasize exposing poor black kids to better peer influences in integrated schools. Indeed, the implicit promise of improved attitudes through peer association accounts for much of the allure of public-school integration.
(Side bar: has anyone else heard incognegro applied in that way? I haven’t, but maybe I’m missing something…)
At any rate, Thompson is exploring a new book by Stuart Buck, a white adoptive parent of black children who believes he has the answer:
But suppose integration doesn’t change the culture of underperformance? What if integration inadvertently created that culture in the first place? This is the startling hypothesis of Stuart Buck’s Acting White: The Ironic Legacy of Desegregation. Buck argues that the culture of academic underachievement among black students was unknown before the late 1960s. It was desegregation that destroyed thriving black schools where black faculty were role models and nurtured excellence among black students. In the most compelling chapter of Acting White, Buck describes that process and the anguished reactions of the black students, teachers, and communities that had come to depend on the rich educational and social resource in their midst.
Yawn. My boyfriend’s grandmother delivers this speech every Tuesday. The “integration fucked us up” meme runs deep, and not just in terms of education – I’ve heard it apply to black business ownership, housing, art – just about anything that we used to own and operate before segregation ended. I’m not sure why Buck thinks he’s stumbled upon something new – there is a certain set of older black folks who will happily explain all the unintended consequences of desegregation if you just ask. However, this was the most emailed article on the Slate site on the 6th, so it’s worth taking a longer look at this alleged phenomenon and why it is such a popular explanation for the achievement gap.
Thompson explains the main thrust of Buck’s ideas:
Like the Moynihan Report’s account of the “tangle of pathology” that kept black families mired in poverty, the “acting white” thesis has been attacked as an insult to black culture, an instance of blaming the victim. In taking on not only black culture but also school desegregation—the defining achievement of the civil rights movement—Buck is sure to be tarred as a callous bigot by uncharitable critics. But he tiptoes through the minefield with nuance and compassion. He credibly (and repeatedly) insists that he supports school desegregation but wants to be forthright about its unintended consequences, so we can find ways to contain them.
Buck proposes a grab bag of alternatives to insisting on blanket integration. His approach is attractively pragmatic and results-oriented. “[W]e should be tolerant of educational experimentation,” he writes; “it’s not as if our nation’s inner-city public schools have a stunning record of success that would thereby be jeopardized.” For the most part, his specific proposals are familiar. For at-risk kids, Buck endorses everything from vouchers to exclusively black-male charter schools to the novel idea of replacing individual grades in integrated schools with academic competitions between teams of students.
Again, nothing really new or novel here. I watched Waiting for Superman (discussion forthcoming) which is about school reform and all of these ideas were touched upon or floated during the course of the film. While I had a few issues with the conclusions in Superman, I felt that film was solid in exploring the core issue – our schools are doing a poor job of preparing students for life in general (forget college) and the students who suffer the most have access to the least resources. Interestingly, in the film, the concept of “acting white” was never raised. Nor was the concept raised in a recent front page Washington Post story about Sousa High School, a low performing school that is 99% African American and 80% low income. In Jay Matthews’ discussion of the article, where he raises a lot of issues around the circumstances of Sousa, the term “Acting white” is still nowhere to be seen on the page.
So why does this idea keep surfacing again and again when discussing black students and scholastic achievement?
Gene Demby, writing for the American Prospect’s TAPPED blog, checks out John McWhorter’s review of the book and points out the obvious:
Despite McWhorter’s protestations, though, there are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this meme, and Buck’s reading of it in particular. Buck has said that he learned of this phenomenon after he and his wife adopted black children, and other white adoptive parents had also said that their children were teased by black kids for acting white. I don’t mean to trivialize how unsettling this must have been to those parents, and how much it hurts for those kids to have their blackness called into question. But why is it a shock that black kids who are raised by white people might face extra hurdles in being accepted by other black kids? And if Buck’s kids are indeed academic standouts, why attribute the taunts to the fact they’re achievers and not, you know, because their parents are white? This is a pretty telling conflation, I think.
But setting aside Buck’s particular situation, we know that in integrated schools, black students are less likely to be placed in Advanced Placement classes and more likely to be placed in remedial ones. Black students are also more likely to be punished more harshly for the same infractions committed by whites. A consequence of that disparity means that black kids who are academic will be spending most of their school days and class time in the company of nonblack kids. Again, it’s not clear that those kids are being told they’re acting white because they’re in AP classes and not because of the company they keep.
(It’s worth noting that Buck appears in the comments section to Gene’s post and mentions he dedicated “a whole chapter” to other factors like, oh, poverty. I’m not jumping on my educational reform soapbox in this post, but I will say I feel really strongly about the need for students to be sheltered from life’s chaos, and how that plays into the ability to achieve in school. This is something many wealthier kids receive access to [i.e. a depressed parent receiving treatment] and that poorer students are just left to cope with [see the last page of the Sousa article I linked for more examples.])
Also at TAPPED, Jamelle Bouie uses his personal experience to poke more holes in the theory:
I’m with Gene; as a nerdy black kid who was accused of “acting white” on a fairly regular basis, I feel confident saying that the charge had everything to do with cultural capital, and little to do with academics. If you dressed like other black kids, had the same interests as other black kids, and lived in the same neighborhoods as the other black kids, then you were accepted into the tribe. If you didn’t, you weren’t. In my experience, the “acting white” charge was reserved for black kids, academically successful or otherwise, who didn’t fit in with the main crowd. In other words, this wasn’t some unique black pathology against academic achievement; it was your standard bullying and exclusion, but with a racial tinge.
What’s more, it seems that Buck, McWhorter, and Thompson are working under the assumption that this stigma is at least somewhat responsible for poor academic performance among black kids. If we are going to assume these taunts evince some unique black pathology, then it’s worth actually looking at the data on black educational achievement. Matthew Yglesias checks out data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress and finds that since 1978, the “math gap” between black and white students has steadily closed:
This isn’t a direct rebuttal of Buck, McWhorter, or Thompson, but it should cast doubt on the idea that desegregation has somehow been worse for black educational achievement.
Now, this doesn’t excuse any of the intra-racial bullying that can occur, or that many kids do receive the “acting white” charge at some point in their school careers. But how prevalent are these attitudes, and how do they impact scholastic achievement? Over on Very Smart Brothas, the Champ holds court on the idea, ultimately concluding the acting white myth was overblown.
one of the most ridiculously realistic scenes in movie history occurs about an hour into akeelah and the bee. if you recall, akeelah gets clowned and dismissed by her brother, namond brice, who also assumes that the neighborhood dopeboy he hopes to work for would find akeelah’s spelling bee competition as simple and stupid as he does. instead, the dopeboy gives akeelah encouragement, tells akeelah about the poems he used to write, and even orders namond to help his little sister study.
this scene is ridiculous because the neighborhood dopeboy is played by the rubberband man, a guy who screams “thug” about as loudly as donnie mcclurkin screams “straight”. but, it’s realistic because this actually does happen. as anyone who’s actually lived in or taught at an inner-city school district will tell you, the school and neighborhood thugs are usually either indifferent towards or encouraging of kids that seem to have a bit of “talent”, whether it’s academic or athletic (as long as they don’t snitch, of course).
2. smart kids don’t get picked on just because they’re smart, but…
…nerdy kids do. and, this happens everywhere, not just in the inner-city. regardless of their socioeconomic or racial background, nerds get teased because, well, they’re nerds, and socially awkward kids are easy targets.
i know this seems obvious, but it just annoys me when people act as if nerdy kids are “allowed” to be nerds everywhere else except the hood. i’m amazed at how easily we’ve allowed this context-less meme to spread, especially since it basically calls us a nation full of crabs. sh*t, there’s a reason revenge of the nerds is such a cult-classic. it’s a vicarious revenge fantasy for nerds, their opportunity to reverse the sh*t that happens to nerds everywhere, and it’s filled with gratuitous boob shots.
that’s actually two reasons, but you get my point.
3. some young adults actually do act “white”…and they do deserve to be picked onby acting “white” i’m not referring to using proper english, listening to weezer instead of weezy, not using washcloths, or even dating outside of your race. but, there are people who do their absolute best to rid themselves of any apparent trace of black culture, and those people deserve to be admonished.
i won’t go into too much detail about how exactly “doing your absolute best to rid yourself of any trace of black culture” is defined, but i will say that its definition is somewhat similar to porn’s: you know it when you see it.
I’ll raise the Champ one – having the perspective of being nearly a decade out of high school and even farther from middle school, I’ll even say that most kids experience some kind of alienation over their natural talents or interests. In school, these types of experiences cut a bit deeper, since our identities are still being formed. Hence why these stings last so long (and in the case of John McWhorter, the emotional scarring he received from childhood taunts will inform his writing for a lifetime.)
One of the VSB commenters, Jen, has my favorite response to the entire situation:
CAN YOU READ??
This girl has said that Black children made fun of her for being high-achieving BECAUSE SHE LIVED IN A WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD AND PLAYED THE F*CKING OBOE.
This doesn’t make sense in any context. I am not “reframing” her experiences–she is reframing her experiences. Living in a white neighborhood and playing the oboe are not markers of high achievement. So, if somebody tells you that you are “acting white” because you live in white neighborhood and play the oboe, they are not telling you that you are “acting white” because you are a high achiever.
As a kid with non-traditional interests and a race-neutral accent, I was told on more than one occasion that I “spoke like a white girl” or was doing “white people sh!t” or other such foolishness. But never–ever–did anybody Black ever mock me for being intelligent OR for being successful at what I did. I have never experienced it. So I didn’t bring up these experiences. Why? Because they are about as relevant to the topic as being told you were acting white for playing the oboe is. IF YOU HAVE PURPLE HAIR OR PLAY THE GUITAR OR SPEAK “THE QUEEN’S ENGLISH” OR DRESS LIKE A PREP GROWING UP, LITTLE BLACK KIDS ARE GONNA TELL YOU YOU’RE ACTING WHITE. But once again, THIS IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING HIGH-ACHIEVING.
Also, while you are trying to be snarky, you seemed to have missed the fact that multiple people have described Black children in white-dominated environments, who are taught that every pathology under the sun is Black. THIS is where this intelligence = acting white foolishness DOES come into play. It is a feature of Black children’s dumbass parents thinking that they have done their children a service by sending them to the wolves to be educated.
So why are Barack Obama, Bill Cosby and other such out-of-touch folks all on the television telling God and everybody that this is something coming out of our community? It isn’t. THIS is my point. The Black community has enough problems. Thinking that intelligence is a marker of whiteness is NOT one of them. While you are running around trying to embrace this bullsh!t, you need to be trying to discredit it so that when you stick your unfortunate kids in a school wherein s/he will be “one of two” the other one won’t be telling her she “ain’t Black” because she doesn’t push crack like Jeezy-from-the-BET claims he does.
I could really relate to Jen’s comment, partially because she called out my high school life.
As a kid with non-traditional interests and a race-neutral accent – check
I was told on more than one occasion that I “spoke like a white girl” or was doing “white people sh!t” or other such foolishness. – check
But never–ever–did anybody Black ever mock me for being intelligent OR for being successful at what I did. I have never experienced it. – Agreed. I got teased for a bunch of random things, from wearing JNCO jeans to general strangeness. But being smart wasn’t a liability, even in the many occasions where I was tracked into regular classes after a move and had to wait a few weeks to enter the gifted track again. Intelligence is a positive quality, and most people recognize that on at least a basic level.
IF YOU HAVE PURPLE HAIR – check. Sally’s Rose Red hair tint turns purple with sun exposure; they may have stopped making this hair tint.
OR PLAY THE GUITAR - check. They gave guitar as a class, which was my first exposure to Prince.
OR SPEAK “THE QUEEN’S ENGLISH” -check, kinda. I;ve been told I sound white on the phone about as often as I’ve been told I have a slight Southern drawl.
OR DRESS LIKE A PREP GROWING UP – check. I was never preppy (just not our area), but there was definitely a divide between suburban style and urban style.But all that aside, again, I don’t see a lot of compelling evidence for the “Acting white” charge actually lowering academic achievement, especially when there are so many compelling reasons why students begin falling behind at earlier and earlier ages that have less to do with culture and more do with with how our societal structures around class and access. There’s a whole other discussion about the changes in how we educate children, and for what purpose, but that will have to wait for another post.
Comments
Ladyrindy wrote:
I have been told that I “act white” by people of all minority races, which really pisses me off. I have never understood why speaking with intelligence, working hard to obtain good grades & having goals is considered “white.” When did this crap start and how can we get it to stop?
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 9:21 am ¶
n wrote:
Context matters. While some may not grow up in an environment where excelling academically or having intellectual interests is not seen as “acting white”, many many do. I was one.
I won’t say it is the only reason, but as we like to say “black culture” is not monolithic.
I’ve been finding this article in all its permutations very frustrating because it seems that a lot of people believe that if it was not their experience, then it wasn’t and isn’t the experience of others.
One reason it is frustrating is because I grew up with parents and some teachers who could not conceive of children being bullied for their intelligence and success. My friends and I went to a poor school and spent a fair amount of time trying to dodge the ass whippings from other students we;d get if we excelled and the ass whippings we’d get from our parents if we failed.
I know kids who dropped out and even committed suicide because their parents were on their asses about their grades and so on, but refused to understand that they were at school quaking in fear and trying to stay alive because some assholes had caught a case of, “Oh, you think you’re smart,think you’re white, think you’re better than us” and were just waiting for any slipup to assault them.
But instead of protecting them or understanding the culture they were coming up in, the parents and even some teachers refused to believe it because it didn’t jibe with their experiences, and then blamed the kids and said they were making excuses.
I think in all of the situations when we’re dealing with black on black violence, we have a problem figuring out what to do. When black men assault black women, when cops arrest black criminals who’ve terrorized black people, when black students bully black students we don’t seem to know how to respond. Do we rush to protect and defend the “victims” or do we rush and try to defend the “perpetrators” who we suspect are being unfairly maligned due to racism.
Many of the parents and teachers I mentioned grew up in segregated black Kumbaya Happiness Shangri La and could not and refused to believe THEIR own people were treating their children this way. My mother only accepted it when her grandkids began high school and it truly broke her heart to face the reality that the sense of unity, community and family she had always believed in did not exist anymore.
But sometimes, its just ugly and we can be our own worst enemies. It may not be everyone’s reality, but it is for some.
So I’m not willing to just dismiss the issue out of hand and say its overblown. Does this occur universally? No. Does it occur?Yes.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 10:23 am ¶
jen* wrote:
As another recipient of the “acting white” descriptor, I have to second [or third] Jen’s comment that the impetus was unrelated to being intelligent – it was related to being socially awkward, shy, and kind of a teacher’s pet…(besides the general preppy stuff). Some of it might also have been due to actually having a white mom.
and THIS:
But why is it a shock that black kids who are raised by white people might face extra hurdles in being accepted by other black kids? And… why attribute the taunts to the fact they’re achievers and not, you know, because their parents are white?
Gene hit it on the head with that one. I’m stymied how a random white adoptive parent of black children could actually write a book about a supposed ‘black community meme’, when they are obviously NOT a part of the black community. Big HUGE Fail for Buck and his supporters.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 10:45 am ¶
JihadPunk77 wrote:
very important, excellent post. I like this the best:
smart kids don’t get picked on just because they’re smart, but…
…nerdy kids do. and, this happens everywhere, not just in the inner-city. regardless of their socioeconomic or racial background, nerds get teased because, well, they’re nerds, and socially awkward kids are easy targets.
I went to a public high school that was full of privileged, upper class white students who were obsessed with being on the Honor Roll and getting good grades. No one made fun of them. But, everyone picked on the nerds who were socially awkward (yes, these nerds were smart but they had poor social skills)…. yet no one picked on the smart (popular) students who had good social skills, played sports, were involved in the Drama Club, and participated in the Honors Club (I forgot what’s that club called). oh yeah, and all the students who were picked for the Prom King and Queen, were smart, too.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 10:50 am ¶
JihadPunk77 wrote:
I came across an important article yesterday that everyone should read. This article discusses how minority students (Black, Hispanic, Arab, Indigenous/Native American, etc…) face more health and success obstacles than white students do. Please have a look:
http://tinyurl.com/22r4aa5
“Moreover, 58 percent of the respondents said white children in the community where they work have “lots of opportunity” to live and play in healthy environments, safe from lead and other toxins, but only 42 percent said the same about African American children. Sixty-two percent of the respondents said that white children have a good chance at having a healthy birth weight, but only 48 percent said the same about Latino children. And 59 percent of the respondents said white children have lots of opportunity to play in homes and neighborhoods without violence, while only 36 percent said the same about Latino children, 37 percent said the same about African American children and 42 percent said the same about American Indian/Alaska Native children.
“These results are alarming because the inequities within a given community are so clearly visible to people who work with children and families,” said Matthew Davis, M.D., M.A.P.P., who directed the study and is Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Communicable Diseases in the CHEAR Unit at the University of Michigan Medical School. “Because they see firsthand the education and health opportunities for children in the communities where they work, they have a different perspective than parents or policymakers. Their views are absolutely essential to improving opportunities for young children at the community level.”
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 10:55 am ¶
Barbara Smith wrote:
Latoya,
this post is on point. I am a faculty member in Education (and African American) and the whole “acting White” discussion has set my teeth on edge for YEARS.
There is very little evidence to support the notion that African Americans as a GROUP do not value education (which is assumed by the dominant narrative of “acting White.”) Rather, African Americans highly value education and since slavery have thought it to be an important part of mobility in the U.S.
Of course there are African Americans who do not value education (as there are White people, etc. who also do not value it – Sarah Palin), but as a group, African American children respond that they plan to get college degrees in pretty high proportions.
Sure, actual attainment does not reach these levels, but the kids see value in it early.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 11:16 am ¶
TMA wrote:
I co-sign quite a bit of what n said. I read and commented on the thread at VSB Latoya referenced in her OP. (And it’s funny that Latoya highlighted a comment from Jen. I had an exchange with her as she attempted to “shout me down” and dispute the validity of my experience and make it seem exceptional.) While not all black children/people see being smart and doing well academically as “acting white”, there are certainly some who do. That was my experience growing up.
It’s interesting, in the past 5 or 6 months, I’ve seen posts on this topic at Ta-Nehisi’s blog for The Atlantic, We Are Respectable Negroes, and Postbourgie. All of the posts expressed a meme similar to the one referenced in this post and on VSB; if you were black and were picked on as a child or adolescent, it wasn’t because you were smart, an academic achiever, or spoke “The King’s English”, it was because you were a socially awkward nerd who dressed funny, looked funny, and read weird books or played odd instruments…like the oboe. Many of the authors of these posts seemed to think that because that was their experience it didn’t happen to anyone else. While it can be difficult to try look back on our past and any awkwardness, weirdness, or nerdiness we may have possessed objectively, when I honestly think back, I know that personally, I was often singled out for being in AG classes and “talking white.”
Maybe one of the differences is school population. Maybe this occurs more in integrated school settings than in those where the majority of students are black and/or brown. I went to majority white schools until college, so I’m not sure if things would have been different if I’d gone to predominately black schools.
Another problem is that the current school system gives short shrift to black students. Black students are tracked into remedial classes more often and do not have as much access to gifted programs and AP classes. So there’s definitely systemic problems hurting the education of many black students in the U.S.
However, I think that we as a community also hurt ourselves. Having gone to majority white primary and secondary schools and a HBCU for undergrad, I have to say that black folks like to police the behavior of other black folks. It’s like there are approved ways to be smart and/or involved in extracurricular activities. For instance, track & field is a cool sport for black people; wrestling and soccer not so much. It’s cool to read books that are assigned to you for a class, but reading books outside of class…why? And why are you reading Ayn Rand instead of Terry McMillan? At my HBCU, the unofficial motto was “work hard and kick it hard.” But the thing is, if you’re really working hard academically (especially in a science major, which I was), you won’t have that much time and/or energy to “kick it hard on the yard.” It can all be very confusing. And the childhood teasing does sting and is hurtful. Yes, children can and do achieve in spite of the teasing and taunts, but that doesn’t make it easier or right. And, in my experience, it can come from family and folks at school.
I love black people. I really do. But I have no interest in pretending that there are some things that happen within our culture that. are. not. helpful. We have to work on healing within while simultaneously fighting external, systemic issues. It’s not easy. But that’s what it is.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 11:16 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@n and @TMA –
I can respect your experience. But the problem with these conversations is that it (1) excuses problems with a discussion of pathology, (2) it is a false diagnosis, (3) like the Moynihan report (which was name checked in the Slate article), it is positioned to become foundation for future policy.
If every single black child pledged to stop teasing each other for “acting white,” these problems would still exist. Is it an internal, community problem? Yes. But it is not an explanation for the achievement gap, and I don’t need 40 years of shitty policy around a relatively minor contribution to some major issues.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:04 pm ¶
klgaffney wrote:
This post nailed it. I got abuse about everything from my hair to my clothes to the music I listened to, to the way I stammered on about “Brave New World.” I was a social mess. I got respect about two things: One was being a good artist, and the other was about being intelligent. Honestly, I remember being resentful about that, too—how no one wanted anything to do with me, I was totally “being black wrong,” but if I got an award, everyone wanted to claim me all of a sudden.
I could easily see how some aspects of intelligence–the lack of social skills, the reading of books by old dead white guys, and the babbling on aimlessly about such would get the kind of reaction that someone might MISTAKE for overall intelligence/achievement bashing, by an outside observer or even by the kid that’s being bullied. The thing is there’s a whole slew of nuance being missed, and I do think that being white parents of a black child they should be a LOT more careful about the kind of messages they’re throwing around.
On the other hand, I can also mention a lot of experiences that nobody seems to know what to do with, except deny. And why IS bashing people for speaking a different way any more acceptable? We do a lot of things to ourselves and each other that are seriously not helping.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:09 pm ¶
Just A Thought wrote:
I hated the article reviewing the book, and based on additional information you gave LDP, I am pretty sure I’d hate the book.
The “Acting White” bullying depends on context. I’ve only gotten it when my diction and accent were different from most of the black people I was around. I was bullied a bit for being a teacher’s pet in school, not as much for having good grades. Especially not after getting into the gifted/college-prep “schools of choice.” And it extended beyond the school. Everyone in the city knew that the kids at these schools of choice were smart, and it was respected and admired (although there was some latent jealousy every now and then). I could freely take my 5ft science fair boards, my violin, my 3D DNA model on the city bus (high schools didn’t have school buses) without hearing nary a perjorative remark or threatening gesture from the “regular” students. If I didn’t have on fashionable clothers, however, I might get picked on for that.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:16 pm ¶
Val wrote:
This. “acting White” meme and others achieve exactly what they are meant to. They take our humanity away by reducing all of us to pathologies.
You don’t have to see Black students as individuals as long as you can pin a pathology on them. Then they are all alike. And when they fail it can be said that it was because they’re Black and not because of outside forces.
And if Black students fail because they’re Black then no one has to feel guilty and no one really has to do anything, except make people aware of Black pathologies.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:25 pm ¶
miga wrote:
I mean, yeah there are people who make fun of you for “being smart,” but those kinds of people are everywhere- it’s not really exclusive to the black community. And as for “acting white,” I got that alot in middle/highschool but it wasn’t because of my grades. It was because, like other people have commented, I didn’t fit in culturally. The people who are going to mess with you will pick on ANYTHING they can find.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:25 pm ¶
Beth wrote:
re: “incognegro,” I’ve heard it used to describe someone who is able to pass. (And, usually, someone passing for the sake of being a sort of “racial spy” than for personal gain.)
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:28 pm ¶
shemari wrote:
I have to take some issue with this article. I attended school in Detroit (K-12) and graduated from high school in 1986. I lived in poor to working class neighborhoods while growing up. I also experienced being ridiculed for grades/intelligence and saw others done the same way. It wasn’t called “acting white” though. You were teased for being in the smart class or talking proper English. You know actually wanting to learn or applying what you learned. To a child it felt like being or appearing smart, unless it’s street smarts, was a sin.
The whole thing about kids getting teased for being a nerd and not for being smart is a joke. You can be labeled a nerd (in Black neighborhoods) without looking like Steve Urkel. Carrying too many books, carrying an instrument, going straight home, being in the house too much, etc. can get you labeled a nerd. Aren’t those some of the markers of higher achieving kids? Sure I knew some kids who fit into the street scene more easily and earned good grades. For them the jig was up once they got to high school. They couldn’t attend school regularly or take challenging courses without being found out. The few I knew were like that ended up dropping out of school.
@n – You summed up a lot of my feelings in your comment. I have an older friend from the South, who based on her utopian childhood, could not conceive of Black children teasing other Black children for “talking proper.”
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:33 pm ¶
TMA wrote:
@Latoya: I agree with you that kids teasing other kids for “acting white” is not the major cause of the achievement gap and that eliminating this phenomenon will not magically solve all that is wrong with the education system (especially as it pertains to black children) in the U. S. I just wanted to point out that this does happen, and not just to those who are “nerds.” And that’s definitely not the meme that I’ve seen going around in some parts of the black blogiverse.
Regarding Stuart Buck and his book, I think he’s coming at this as an outsider who just “discovered” this issue because he’s now raising black children. I wouldn’t expect him to have any (new) insight. Unfortunately, I think non-black/mainstream media will see this as an “I told you so” and run with it. Also, like n, Buck is just rehashing things my mother, father, aunts, uncles, and family friends (who mainly went to segregated schools) have been saying for years (and years and years). Like you said, this book and likely much of the discussion it brings up is not going to help solve the actual issues with the achievement gap.
I’m beginning to think that only grassroots, radical change can help to turn the tide in our educational system. I have a a couple of friends that work with black students in extracurricular educational programs. One of them runs a Saturday school for black children that is centered around a culturally competent curriculum. She’s made real strides with her students and is in the process of expanding her program to bring it to other cities in the northeast. They’ve inspired me to start developing a program for high school students to get them interested in careers in the allied health professions and fitness, while providing them with practical skills they can use to earn money while they’re in school. I really think that positive change is going to start from the bottom up.
All that to say, I think it’s up to those who have the time, energy, interest, and wherewithal, to start assisting those who are most at risk and sturggling. I also hope that system change is possible, but I know that it takes time to change massive systems. And while attitudes are not all there are to this issue (and may play a very small part), I do think they’re important. I don’t see why we can’t start working on changing them while also agitating for revolution on a systemic level.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:33 pm ¶
Lola wrote:
I was told I sounded white or proper. I was also very shy and did not have the in style clothes/shoes. I also lived on the white side of town and have a biracial mother. Other kids who were outgoing did not get made fun of for being smart in our predominately black school.
The media loves black pathology, it is their favorite headline and automatic best seller but it is not the truth.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:34 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:
So if you’re socially awkward black child who is not picked on for your grades but you are picked on for: speaking proper english, not wearing big huge gold chains, not wearing the latest kalvin keni or cross colours, not having breasts before 6th grade, not having a cute black button nose, not having a big enough butt and not having sex by 7th grade then you didn’t experience “acting white” discrimination? Interesting……… I have to second N and TMN, this is a big huge eraser of black intrarracial discrimination and violence that’s perpetrated on the nerdy. Only the cool smart black children are deserving of a somewhat peaceful existence everyone else whose hair was set on fire better get crackin on some social skills?
Sometimes maintaining high grades also involves participation in other *gasp* non- cool, white behaviors. I guess I could have had my sexual debut at 12, smoked weed and still have ended up where I am today. Or I might have ended up leaving my baby on someone’s doorstep like one of my other socially awkward gifted program classmates allowed a more popular boy to “practice” his sexual techniques on her since she wasn’t pretty or cool enough to be his girlfriend.
If every single black child pledged to stop teasing each other for “acting white,” these problems would still exist. —-I think it would help a lot if we stopped defining blackness by the lowest common denominator.
But it is not an explanation for the achievement gap, and I don’t need 40 years of shitty policy around a relatively minor contribution to some major issues.——–I agree with that, but this whole acting white problem is something that could be fixed ourselves without a big interevention from society at large, right now, if we actually had the will to do it.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:46 pm ¶
Darth Paul wrote:
I can’t speak for growing up black, but plenty of chicanos gave me antinerd shyte growing up. I hated sports (terrible mark against any male in the US), loved books, had high grades, eventually joined band and orchestra. Never once, though, were their insults tied to acting gabacho or white (I was more routinely called a geek or a queer). I spoke better Spanish and had a MUCH firmer grasp of chicano history and issues than most of them, despite being only half chicano.
I should also point out that I discovered JRR Tolkien’s books (a significant landmark in nerd-dom) in 4th grade via my best friend at the time, who was a black dude in all the gifted courses I was in. He was never accused of acting white either. Quite the opposite- he wasn’t considered “ghetto”, but he was very liked and respected (not just by the black kids, either). Anyway, power to the nerds!
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:49 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Celeste –
I fully agree with Jamelle here. Acting white is a race based permeation of standard bullying, no more, no less. It’s not a defense of atrocious behavior – and most of us in the article detailed how we were subject to the same types of bullying growing up, and concluded it was more awkwardness than achievement that was the issue. Is that shit ok? No. But it ALSO is not an explanation of the achievement gap, point blank.
And when folks like Buck write their books and make their speeches, and write their papers, they are advocating for some form of action to be taken based on this concept of acting white, without any hard data on what that does to achievement.
Kids can be assholes, and most of the people who are famous or successful point to times in which they were bullied for being who they are. It’s a shitty thing, but its a standard part of life. So I’m not sure what recourse you think will happen – if white people had solved the bullying problem,we could just copy their model, but as the Champ said, there’s a reason why Revenge of the Nerds is a cult classic. And again, while ending all of the racial policing that happens would make a lot of individual lives easier, I’m not seeing where it would magically produce educational reform.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 12:58 pm ¶
Beth wrote:
Is it possible to acknowledge that black kids can and do get teased for “acting white” without pathologizing (sp?) black folk at large? I’m not saying that I have the capacity to do it, but I think it is possible.
Re: Jen’s VSB comments, while the things she mentions aren’t necessarily about high academic achievement, they certainly are about privilege. Expensive preppy clothes, access to a musical instrument and lessons, and speaking a certain way (perhaps because a parent had gone to college, or because one parent didn’t have to work and had more time to spend reading to a kid in pre-K, etc, etc) are far easier with more money. Money also makes it easier to gain access to “gifted & talented,” honors, and A.P. classes. Since tracking (deciding what kids will end up in more rigorous classes) happens early and often at the whim of a teacher who may be racist or at least have a lot of difficulty imagining a black child in a “gifted & talented” class, is it any wonder that some of those who manage to get there have a bit of class privilege on their side (like a parent who has a work schedule that allows time to meet with a teacher, or a parent that has a higher degree than the teacher, etc). The conflation of race class is nothing new, and could be at play in at least some of the “acting white” issues. That said, it doesn’t make much sense to me to get scarred from tauntings by folks who likely had a harder time than me.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 1:06 pm ¶
shemari wrote:
Another thing I wanted to address was the whole “Black people value education” thing.
I see a disconnect between what gets said and what is actually getting done.
I moved away from Detroit to raise my child. My son had a lot of difficulties with school from the beginning, so I’ve had to spend a tremendous amount of time and money to get him through. This included efforts aimed solely at him to joining and helping to run a Black Parent Support group as well as being a visible and active volunteer throughout the school district. I’ll try to keep this short, but here are some things I’ve seen.
1) Black parents often don’t have enough information or the right information on how to help their children succeed academically.
2) Black parents can’t or don’t want to put in the time or spend the money necessary. It’s an uphill battle having to fight against low expectations for and bigotry against Black children, both in majority Black and integrated cities. Some parents can’t do it. I’ve also met some who refuse to do more.
3) Some would say that American culture in general doesn’t value education. I know I’ll get a lot of hell for this, but it seems like in the Black community it’s valued even less. I’ve seen Black parents spend way more money and time investing in their future athletes than their future scholars. This is even when their child is talented academically (or in some other way such as music or art) and plays a sport.
I don’t discount the fact that Black children in schools have issues with not enough resources (in Urban areas), low expectations, and bigotry. I just don’t see a whole lot of effort on the adults part to remedy the situation. Parents (mine included) send their kids to school dressed, fed, rested and expect the child to come out educated in the end. It’s a nice dream, but it just hasn’t panned out that way.
Finally, I live in an area of my city that has a high concentration of Asians. The schools in my part of the city have the best test scores. I have a Kumon nearby where the students are at least 75% Asian, some starting while barely out of diapers. A lot them look like Steve Urkel, yet they don’t get teased by their fellow Asians for being nerdy.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 1:15 pm ¶
Premmy wrote:
@n & @ TMA
I think a lot of stuff people think are related to “being smart” aren’t, in fact that, A problem I see in a lot of nerds.
How you talk?(The Queen’s English)
Not related to your intelligence, no matter how much Grammer geeks (They’re fixated on it, that makes them geeks) like to have superior attitudes about it
The things you like?
( Music, clothes, sports)
Not related to your intelligence.
I’m sure you find your interests intellectually stimulating, but that’s a matter of opinion.
The point being made is that these kids were made fun of primarily (I say primarily because I won’t disregard experiences with individuals with their own issues regarding their intelligence venting that on smart people) for being DIFFERENT from the norm, which, most definitely sucks, sure, but isn’t necessarily a uniquely black thing.
TMA you talked about the “work hard, play hard” thing and how that didn’t work for you because you had to work harder….. If you sacrifice other things in your life in favor of another, you’re a geek, that’s the definition of Geek, a focus on a certain thing. People who aren’t geeks strike a balance in their lives in all things.
The thing you happen to be a geek about isn’t the popular thing, so you were probably ostracized for that. That’s terrible, but it’s not something that only happens to black folks, the “Color” of it might be different, but it’s still just people picking on geeks.
The Black guy who plays guitar and likes hockey is “Acting white”
The White guy who raps and likes basketball is “acting black”
Reading is good and necessary, but reading recreationally is a matter of personal taste, not a sign of intelligence. I love when I find a book that grabs me, but I’m also aware that that doesn’t make me smart, despite what people think.
I know of people who love to read simplistic books that I wouldn’t find intelligent, so when people tell me they love to read, I always ask “What kind of books do you like to read?”
It’s not always about social skills either
People who do Y have preconceived notions about the people who do X
Studios kids have their ideas about what kids who skate are like and vice versa.
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 1:20 pm ¶
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