Mohamed Abdel Moneim El Sawy, founder of “Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel”, inspires the YoVenturers in an interview that goes beyond business and revolves about LIFE!
Translated by Gannat El Bahnassawy and interviewed by Sabrine Assem
When I knew that I’ll get to interview Mohamed El Sawy, I thought I’ll be interviewing a social entrepreneur. That’s why he represented for me the perfect candidate to present to our readers the idea of social entrepreneurship. During the interview I discovered, however, that not only did I get to know a great social entrepreneur who founded – in my opinion – the most innovative cultural establishment in Egypt but also that I was interviewing a great thinker and philosopher which made the interview an enlightening experience.
Proud of his upbringing phase which was marked by the touches of his late father “Abdel Moneim El Sawy”, the great Egyptian novelist and thinker, Mohamed El Sawy is now putting his own signature on the cultural life in Egypt. If you haven’t visited “Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel” yet, you must have heard of it. Since its establishment “The Wheel” has become one of the main highlights of the Egyptian cultural life. A place people became attached to because of its simplicity, integrity and creativity. As El Sawy says, It simply belongs to the people and no one else.
We have here Mr. Mohamed El Sawy the initiator of “El Sawy Culture Wheel”. He will tell us how that brilliant idea arised. Mr. Mohamed, please introduce yourself.
I’m Mohamed Abdel Moneim El Sawy. I’m an ordinary person who believed that any ordinary person can make extraordinary things only by some effort, persistence, and logic thinking. I never really believed that there are intelligent and stupid people. But, there are some people who use their minds significantly, while others prefer not to; some act positively, while others don’t. Those who walk backward will lag behind, and those who walk forward will eventually make a breakthrough. I believe that one must try to walk forward and benefit people with no sacrifices. I don’t feign sacrifice. Some people praise me saying: “Well Done!” thinking I’ve sacrificed, but I haven’t. I live properly, taking care of my hygiene, playing sports, making sure to keep fit. I care to spend quality time even when fully engaged in work. Back to your question, so I was just saying that I’m just an ordinary person who was brought up in Egypt. I was so lucky that I was brought up by my father, Abdel Moneim El Sawy, as well as my mother who took the responsibility of nurturing seriously.
I went to the German Secondary Evangelical School in Cairo. This school was very accountable for education. So, I had the chance to encounter different developed cultures and have an education based on developing a human and not only stuffing minds with information just to pass the exams. I lived a childhood where both home and school wanted genuinely to bring up a real human being. I took all these elements and made my choice. I really knew how to choose right and carefully.
For instance, I’ve chosen to do sports. I’ve been running long distances since I was fifteen years old. I never longed to be a champion, but I believed that it would grant me a better life and would make my relation with life better because of the balanced health.
I’ve chosen to deal with a tasteful art which is the marionette because it was performed in school. The Marionette embraced all other arts i.e. writing, music, vocal and physical performance, as well as all kinds of fine art. It was an advantage to deal with all these arts in an early stage.
When I joined university, I studied architecture which is yet another valuable art and science that affects human life. It is the complementary environment i.e. there’s the natural environment and another that the human creates by himself and that’s architecture. To design a shirt for someone, you need to take his measurements, while to design an apartment for that someone, you need to take his internal and external measurements e.g. psychological aspect, way of thinking, ambitions, and every incorporeal and physical aspects. It was a rich and an amusing study for me.
Then, I lived as a businessman. According to the job categorization, we were classified as an advertising agency, although my brother and I were convinced that we were working in a company that was founded by our father, Abdel Moneim El Sawy, who believed in the message of man in life. So, we worked as an advertising agency in a way that serves the society. Alameya Publishing & Advertising Co. was known for its art and sport activities in all special events. Alameya escorted the time with all the events it brings along such as occasions and feasts. It even created events for itself such as the Autocross. There has never been a car racing in Egypt before. We were convinced that racing is the only way to reduce road dangers. No one can stop youth from racing. It’s as ridiculous as believing that one can stop the wind from blowing. The wind will blow no matter what. However, we can take advantage of it in improving weather conditions, cultivating, and generating energy. This is considered a good use of the wind.Otherwise, we can build a barrier, which will eventually collapse, and we’ll have to build another and so on without achieving any positive results. No way to prevent youth from racing. Autocross came to absorb their energies and transform it into a way that allows them to deal with technology carefully by teaching them what motor and suspension mean and finding out what the different cars technologies are in addition to electricity and other sciences which they might have hated if they had been obliged to learn them through scholar syllabuses. However, they yearned for them out of interest and hobby. We have made many events of that sort.
We’ve been working since 1980 which means that next year we shall be celebrating our 30th anniversary. That is no negligible phase of our work towards the society. We have never thought of financial income and we didn’t have any intentions to be immoral tradesmen with no principles. We believe that earnings are fixed factors. Those who abandon their morals and abase themselves imagining that they’d make more revenues are fools.
After that, we entered an important phase which was Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel. People might think that that was extraordinary, but, I believe that that was the ripen fruit of what Abdel Moneim El Sawy had seeded inside us. I grew up with art, creativity, culture, enlightened thinking and the freedom of expression. Those were the terms that I had heard from my father who died in 1984 i.e. 25 years ago. He used to talk about the environment and the risks of neglecting the environmental issues. Those issues, that became topical issues nowadays, Abdel El Moneim El Sawy used to discuss it with us profoundly.
When I first came to the location of Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel, I only came to document media rights and to see panels. Establishing a cultural center was not on my mind that day. So, I went through Abu El-Feda Tunnel because we were asked to cover it by marble according to the instructions given by Cairo Governorate. When I entered, I felt as if I was in an enormous cave full of rubbish, drunkards, drug addicts, and outlaws. Anyone, who would have entered, would have easily noticed the scattered syringes, a pillow, a blanket and everything else that revealed bad abuses in the center of Cairo, El-Zamalek, by the Nile Coast. At the very first sight, I pictured the stage of the culture wheel as if it was real. I saw a stage with a light system and a curtain which was about to open. I wanted to embark on this idea because I couldn’t resist it.
So, I made my calls with the governor of Cairo. To my surprise, he welcomed the idea, on the contrary to what people had told me. They put me down saying “Don’t even try!”, “No one will pay attention to this”. Later on, when the culture wheel began its activities, the governor of Cairo declared that he has always been weak in front of the name, Abdel Moneim El Sawy, and that he couldn’t reject a project holding his name. They knew each others personally, so, since the project was named after Abdel Moneim El Sawy, it had to be approved.
Also the issue of naming it Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel was yet another challenge. Generally, I love to think and to feel the burden over my head. It’s as if my mind gets happy every time there’s an issue that needs to be solved, or a sealed door that needs to be unlocked. So, one of the mind tasks was to find an extraordinary name for that place. I would have never chosen names like “Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Center”, “Abdel Moneim El Sawy House for Art and Culture”, or “Abdel Moneim Art Academy”. I couldn’t be traditional in a time in which I wanted the people to break the barriers and lighten the spark of culture - a real culture that differs from those dark TV programs in which some cold people with thick glasses utter some unfathomable words to force the spectators to change the channel. We want to make culture an interesting issue, make people love it, discern its importance and make it one of the top priorities. I think if one should organize his priorities in a society that seeks development, he has to put culture as a first and foremost priority. Don’t say “when we find something to eat first” or “when you find something to wear first”. It’s like buying good shoes first before learning how to walk.
Anyway, I mulled over the possible names for that place. I remembered that Abdel Moneim El Sawy named his most important novel “Waterwheel”. So why not revive Abdel Moneim El Sawy by employing this name? Then, I thought “will it be ‘Waterwheel’ only”? I was afraid his name might get buried as time elapses, so, I named it “Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel”. I was so careful that people say it “Abdel El Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel” and not only “El Sawy Culture Wheel”. I always ask them to say my father’s name so that it remains a commemorative plaque. I believe that it all goes for my father because he had always loved to see me involved in such activities that serve art, culture, and the freedom of speech.
This is one of the most beautiful replies I’ve ever got. What’s your future vision regarding Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel?
My ambitions have escalated now after the appreciation we received in the past period. I want a small panel with “Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel” written on it in every corner, behind every wall. It can only be a 3 × 4 room with two bookshelves and a serious person who can welcome the visitors, guide them and help them read. It can be a large room with a projector displaying one film monthly. It can be a place that is five times bigger than this place or even a floor that can take in 10.000 people. What’s important is to make people have a sense of belonging to everything that serves and introduces cultures. I mean it is never about the dimensions of the place. People always ask me “how would we find a place like this?”, and I always reply that even if someone has a roof that he can spruce it up to receive the residents of the building, then he is doing a great job for his country. One does not need to get involved in zillions of matters to be recognized as an active citizen. People should appreciate any number of people who benefit from any wisdom, thought, word, or change in the prospect of life. That’s our aspiration. Nowadays, I’m writing a manual, which I call “The book of Death”. I don’t want to sound melancholic, but I feel as if I am in charge of the idea. If this idea was wasted, I’d be guilty towards the people. So, I’m writing this handbook so that anyone can take it and work according to Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel protocol if he wants to cooperate. He can take a small panel and we can support him for a year by printing the printouts for them. We can send him someone who can assist him i.e. if the unit is a bit big, we can send him a manager for 6 months till he gets acquainted with the way of operating. We’re ready to support any unit till it becomes financially independent. We can even support them by our contacts and sponsorships so that they can give him fund directly. I don’t want to have many branches that might make me lose control. I want to have the freedom of choosing whoever I can see committed enough to take Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel’s name. Even one might want to work with the same model of Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel but he wants to name it “The Light” or “The International Culture”, he can do whatever he wants. We won’t forfeit someone’s right to benefit from our protocol even if he has no intention to use our name.
Was it easy to find sponsors?
In the beginning, it was difficult. What really helped was my broad history in the field of advertising in addition to my public relations. The first one who gave us support was Naguib Sawiris. He visited us twice in five years. Whenever he sees me, he tells me “You’ve done the best thing ever in Egypt…You have no idea how happy I become, when I come to this bridge and get stuck in traffic just because there’s a crowd coming out of Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel…It doesn’t annoy me at all because I feel how successful this project is.” Naguib gave me sponsorship before we even began; just because he has seen something in the project that Egypt really needs. The Arab African International Bank responded to our request willingly. Also, Juhayna joined the sponsors list. Mr. Safwan Sabet is never late whenever we’re in need of support. Egypt Air joins us for two or three months then quit and join back again. The same goes for some companies. We don’t want to fall for any governmental support that might interfere in our business. We’re in a good relation with all authorities and especially the ministry of culture. The minister of culture himself has come to Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel twice and whenever it is mentioned, he praises it. We have never had any troubles with any authority but I don’t want to get into that trap so that I don’t lose my people. People deal with the place as if it is theirs, and this is true and this gives it a spirit that I don’t want to abandon. I don’t want people to feel that this place is Mohamed El Sawy’s. I don’t want them to feel that this place is related by anyway to politics. Last year, we organized “The Year of Rights” where we discussed political rights and talked about the most critical issues. However, I’ll never let any party neither democratic nor another do anything that points that we’re related to any party. We’re a totally independent intellectual place that discusses any issue freely, respects everyone, never despises anyone, and never offends anybody. Anyone can criticize anyone without offence. You can’t simply say “X is a robber”, but we can say “X couldn’t succeed in executing so and so”. We can’t say “X is a conspirator and he aims at ruining policies in the country”. We can’t open his mind and see what’s inside. However, we can say that “after X had been in authority, he didn’t satisfy the aspirations of his people, and he could have done so and so”. I always say that criticism is beneficial and that there’s nothing called noxious criticism. This should be considered a swearword. Criticism is a great thing and I always ask people to say the demerits before the merits to help us develop.
Do you have a yearly schedule for the events?
We have two-month schedules. We can’t make a more extended one although I wish we could. When I went to the Canadian Center and Carnegie Hall in New York, they were finalizing the events of 2009. We are incapable of doing the same due to many factors. People in Egypt are not organized enough; most artists are not a stable formal entity e.g. companies or corporations. They are usually a group who can’t take the responsibility for signing any contract in fear that they might not continue together. If one of them had the opportunity to go to the Emirates, he’ll cancel any other commitments. He’d say “I will get paid twenty times more than here”. So, no one can schedule with us for more than two months except for the foreign institutions such as Goethe. Today we were arranging with an American an event that will take place next year. But that cannot be applied to Egyptian or Arab artists. We put the features of the year so that we organize the events with regard to the exams period, national holidays, and feasts.
Let’s get out of Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel range and talk about a wider scope which is Youth. If one has an idea, and he is persistent enough to carry it out, what about the barriers that might come in their way?
Of course, there’re a lot of obstacles. The solution is to form youth entities so that they have a solid ground and power. For instance, why can’t it be a group of 15 people who have a vision of who’s in charge, know how to work, how to distribute tasks among them and how to take their decisions? Not only a weak entity that collapses as soon as any disagreement comes in their way. There’s nothing in this world without obstacles. You have to find logical access to what you want, what capacity can you afford and how to advance. It isn’t a great deal if you failed once, and start all over again. As we worked on that project, people used to ask me what if the license was withdrawn. I used to reply that if one day I woke up hearing that there are some military units at the place and that the place has been closed, I won’t have a nervous breakdown and bash my head into the wall. My mind immediately will think for something else by which I can help people. We can make home-made marionettes and tour houses. I don’t have any problem doing this and I won’t be upset. I’ll just commiserate with the fact that this unit is no longer functioning. I won’t be happy, but I won’t die and I’ll search for anything else to do. It’s like playing a game; you can’t just quit because the other team has scored a goal. So what I want to say to the Youth is that there’s nothing too hard and that we can be stronger by number, financial status, or human skills. We need patience. Patience is a very important factor in solving problems. One should determine the right time; for instance, like in agriculture, if one missed the rain season, he will have to wait for the next cycle.
Then, there’s hope.
Definitely! It feels good to know that there’s hope. Failure should not be hated as much as dereliction of duty. I’ll get upset if I couldn’t accomplish my mission. That should make me totally depressed, yet careful as not to repeat that mistake. If I’ve done everything I can and still failed, then I should try again. It’s not a demerit.
I wanted to know the theme that you plan for every year. Last year, you planned for “The Year of Wisdom” and this year it’s “The Year of Minds”. How many years have you put theme visions for?
We’ve made “The Year of Arabic Language” in 2006, “The Year of Rights” in 2007, and this year we’ve been celebrating “The Year of Minds”. I’ve suggested that the people working for the magazine give us their ideas for 2009. It’s no longer a secret that I want to quake the society by the word “Neighborhood”. Sorrowfully, people have refrained from valuing neighbors. Wise is the one who makes good relations with those who surround him. The notion of a good society is to respect neighbors by regarding their rights, caring for them, and helping them out in their needs as much as we expect them to do the same for us, too. It’s ridiculous to say “I want my children to come and live next to me”. What if you don’t have any? What if they died? I may not have any brothers, sisters, children, or a family, but I have a neighbor. I must value my neighbor. Terrorism managed to find a shelter for every illegal act just because people are no longer aware who their neighbors are. In the past, such criminals had to retreat to the mountain and the society called them “El-Matareed” which means the pariahs. Nowadays, those people can live in El-Zamalek without anyone knowing what they’re planning for. Earlier, the notion of neighborhood didn’t refer to being nosy, but at least being friendly with them to create a hale of amiability and comfort.
I would like to consult your opinion as regards to a different matter that’s been on my mind for a while. When the insulting caricatures were published in Denmark and when the Holy Koran was incinerated, the Egyptian and the Arab society protested against those acts and burnt up the embassies. On the contrary, when a terrorist act is committed, they stay as silent as the grave. What do you think of this?
That was a faux pas. We’re still an undeveloped country that retort in a way that pleases others. I mean if we really love our prophet and we want to defend him when being insulted; we should have manifested the glory of Prophet Muhammad’s deeds and sayings instead of riposting “We’ll kill you” or “We’ll take vengeance”. That sounded naïve and ludicrous. That really deprived them of their liberty and demonstrated what they thought is true. I believe in the freedom of religion and I’m certain that Islam is innocent of the fallacies around apostasy and killing converts. This has happened only in the time of Abu-Bakr El-Siddiq when people suspended the Zakah. Abu-Bakr waged war on them to take the Zakah and returned back and not to make them stand in a row to declare that “No God but ALLAH, and Muhammad is His Prophet”. I don’t agree with the concept that says whoever convert from Islam must be killed. This underrates the value of Islam and makes people think of espousing Islam just to escape punishment. Why not let them long for Islam instead, if they really believe in it? Actually, I wish people could understand that the greatest thing is to let aside people’s beliefs and deal with their deeds and reactions. That’s what really matters. But we as Egyptians always look to people’s beliefs and political attitudes. In schools, they used to tell us that Muhammed Ali Pasha was a bad leader and that he used to do things for his own interests. But if we looked to what he’s done for his own interests, we’ll find the barrages, the army, the cotton agriculture, and the missions. Even if we looked closer into the families’ cores, we’ll find that the reason beyond the cracked relations, divorce, and other problems were all incited by the interference of people. Everyone wants to shape others’ minds to match his. We should all cooperate and discuss every matter and reach resolutions. Problems arise from doubt and false guesses. The simplest of Man’s rights is to keep his thoughts liberated.
I like that question. What I’m saying here is that when we threw stones at the embassies and burnt the flags that made Europeans think that Islam resembles terrorism saying “if Muslims do such things, then we’re right”. If Muslims had simply showed up with a confident smile saying “you really don’t know that man. That man commanded that during warfare no trees are to be cut down and no women are to be attacked. When he was attacked by El Ta’ef tribe, the mountain guardian angel told him that he can crush them and get rid of them. But he refused telling the guardian angel that there might be someone among them who can benefit others and worship ALLAH. That man was a lovable and tolerant person. He was a man of justice and integrity. He was never an engineer, a scientist, or a doctor. He was the person who said that he was only sent to accomplish the mission of passing on good ethics.”
As someone who got inspired by all the answers of Mr. Mohamed Abdel Moneim El Sawy in this interview, I encourage you all to go visit Abdel Moneim El Sawy Culture Wheel if you haven’t done so before and know more about this Egyptian achievement which I regard as one of the greatest achievements in the last 10 years. Mohamed El Sawy marked his name with golden letters in the book of great Egyptian social leaders.
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